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Rochester Hills

Minutes

Historic Districts Study Committee

Chairperson Jason Thompson, Vice Chairperson Dr. Richard Stamps

Members: John Dziurman, David Kibby, Dennis Mueller,

Peggy Schodowski, LaVere Webster

5:30 PM

1000 Rochester Hills Drive

Thursday, January 10, 2008

MINUTES of a ROCHESTER HILLS REGULAR HISTORIC DISTRICTS STUDY

COMMITTEE meeting held at the City Municipal Offices, 1000 Rochester Hills Drive,

Rochester Hills, Oakland County, Michigan.

CALL TO ORDER

1.

Chairperson Thompson called the meeting to order at 5:30 PM.

ROLL CALL

2.

Richard Stamps, John Dziurman, Jason Thompson, LaVere Webster and

David Kibby

Present

5 -

Peggy Schodowski and Dennis Mueller

Absent

2 -

Others Present: Derek Delacourt, Deputy Director, Planning Department

Judy A. Bialk, Recording Secretary

Chairperson Thompson welcomed Mr. Kibby to the Committee. He noted Mr.

Mueller had just been appointed at the January 7, 2008 City Council meeting and had

a prior conflict. He stated Ms. Schodowski had left prior notice she could not attend

this meeting.

DETERMINATION OF A QUORUM

3.

Chairperson Thompson stated for the record that a quorum was present.

APPROVAL OF MINUTES

4.

4A.

2007-0884

November 8, 2007 Regular Meeting Minutes

Chairperson Thompson asked for any comments or corrections regarding the

November 8, 2007 Regular Meeting Minutes. Upon hearing no comments or

corrections, he called for a motion to approve.

A motion was made by Webster, seconded by Dziurman, that this matter be

Approved as Presented.

The motion CARRIED by the following vote:

Aye

Stamps, Dziurman, Thompson, Webster and Kibby

5 -

Absent

Schodowski and Mueller

2 -

RESOLVED that the Minutes of the November 8, 2007 Regular Historic Districts

Commission Meeting be approved as presented.

ANNOUNCEMENTS/COMMUNICATIONS

5.

Chairperson Thompson asked if there were any announcements or communications.

He thanked Rev. Dr. Pamela Whateley for her years of service on the Committee.

No other announcements or communications were provided.

PUBLIC COMMENT (Non-Agenda Items)

6.

No public comments were received.

UNFINISHED BUSINESS

7.

7A.

2007-0887

Meeting with State Historic Preservation Office

Mr. Delacourt explained the Committee had discussed holding a meeting with a

representative of the State Historic Preservation Office (SHPO) in connection with

SHPO's review of the three delisting Preliminary Reports. In their response letter, the

SHPO had indicated a meeting with the State's local historic districts coordinator

would be scheduled. The Study Committee believed this was a good idea and

requested a meeting be scheduled.

Mr. Delacourt stated he had contacted Amy Arnold, the local historic districts

coordinator, and she indicated the meeting referenced in the State's review letter

would have been scheduled with the City's Historic Districts Commission, and was

suggested in error on her part as she mistakenly assumed the City was a Certified

Local Government (CLG). She had explained meetings were routinely scheduled with

the Historic Districts Commissions of CLG municipalities.

Mr. Delacourt stated that Ms. Arnold had indicated she would be happy to meet with

the Study Committee, although she would have to be reimbursed for her travel

expenses.

In his discussion with Ms. Arnold, he referred to the review comments, and noted the

review comments did not contain any reference to what the Historic Districts

Commission (HDC) may or may not have approved appropriately or inappropriately.

He pointed out the Study Committee's review was of the structure as it appeared

today.

Mr. Delacourt stated he wanted to check to see if the Study Committee was still

interested in scheduling a meeting since travel expenses would have to be reimbursed

to the SHPO. He noted he found the State's review letter confusing, and that both Dr.

Jane Busch and Kristine Kidorf had reviewed the SHPO review letter and did not

understand what was going on.

Mr. Dziurman stated he was not sure he was totally in favor of delisting the Rice

Property (1470 W. Tienken). He noted the home on Dequindre had been moved,

and the State agreed with the delisting of that property (56187 Dequindre).

The Committee discussed the legal requirements when the SHPO did not agree with

the Study Committee's Preliminary Report. Mr. Delacourt noted the final decision of

whether to designate or delist was made by the local unit of government. The

Committee discussed the fact that if the SHPO did not agree with a local unit of

government's decision, they would not provide tax credits for renovation work

performed on that property, which would hurt the property owner.

The Committee discussed whether the SHPO would consider re-issuing their review

letter. Mr. Delacourt explained that the State holds cities with a CLG certification to

certain standards. In their response letter, the SHPO assumed the City was a CLG

and made other assumptions about how the City performed. SHPO had reviewed

their comments and believed their comments were still valid. The Committee noted

that SHPO did not agree that 920 South Boulevard W. met the criteria for

designation; and then disagreed with the delisting of two other properties.

Mr. Dziurman noted the Rice Property (1470 W. Tienken) had some history behind it,

despite changes having been made to the exterior of the structure, and was more

significant to the history of the Community.

The Committee discussed the fact the three delisting Preliminary Reports presented

three different scenarios, and discussed how they should proceed with those reports.

It was noted the process was established by Ordinance, and the City's Ordinance

mirrored State Law. The Committee commented they had used consultants who were

experts in their field, and who had worked for SHPO. All agreed the nature of the

SHPO response to the three delisting reports was unprofessional in chastising the

City's Historic Districts Commission (HDC), particularly when the Commission was a

separate entity and had nothing to do with the Study Committee's work.

The Committee questioned whether there would be some benefit from meeting with

Brian Conway, the State Historic Preservation Officer, or whether the HDC should be

invited to participate in the meeting. Mr. Dziurman pointed out the State considered

the Committee and the Commission two separate boards. He suggested that perhaps

representatives of the Committee and the Commission could travel to Lansing to meet

with SHPO, or meet at a halfway point. He reminded the Committee that SHPO has

participated in the Commission's Open House event held in May, 2007.

The Committee discussed the fact the Committee and the SHPO did not appear to

"be on the same page" as SHPO had not agreed with the Committee's

recommendations on three of the last four Preliminary Reports. For some reason, the

Committee is missing the mark with SHPO.

There was some discussion on how the presentation to the State Review Board was

handled, as the Review Board comments seemed to mirror SHPO's comments. It

was noted that Brian Conway signs the SHPO response letters, but it appears Amy

Arnold does the actual review.

Mr. Dziurman stated he would be willing to meet with the State. The Committee

agreed it would be beneficial to find out what is going on. With respect to the initial

Preliminary Report prepared for 920 South Boulevard W., the Committee

recommended designation. However, based on the fact SHPO did not agree with the

proposed designation, the Committee did not make a recommendation to City Council

that the property be designated. The matter was left with the proviso that if someone

purchased the property and requested designation, additional research could be done

to determine if there was additional criteria sufficient to warrant designation. Although

one of the former owners of the property was involved in agriculture and published

some books on the subject, no evidence had been found as to whether any of the

research or writing had taken place at the property. That particular former owner also

owned property in Florida. Another prior owner had done some illustration work on

Star Wars; however, it did not appear that work had been done on the property.

Mr. Delacourt asked how the Committee wanted to proceed with the delisting

Reports. Mr. Dziurman stated he was not sure he agreed with delisting the Rice

Property (1470 W. Tienken). He pointed out the history of site including farming, and

the Community began primarily as a farming community. He agreed the architecture

of the home had been changed.

Chairperson Thompson clarified that the Committee felt a meeting with representatives

from SHPO would be beneficial. The Committee agreed as there was a lot of

concern that SHPO had disagreed with so many of the respected opinions of those on

the Committee and the qualified consultants.

Mr. Delacourt stated that the Rice Preliminary Report (1470 W. Tienken) required

some additional discussion. As the SHPO disagreed with the Committee's

recommendation, perhaps more investigation was required. It was noted that SHPO

was not specific about the reasons they disagreed and did not ask for any more

information about the approval of any additions to the house or the property. The

only reason given by the SHPO was that they felt that property should not be delisted

because the HDC inappropriately approved additions. He indicated he had asked for

the SHPO comments to be rewritten; however, SHPO did not agree that the integrity

had fallen to the point where the property should be delisted.

The Committee agreed a meeting with SHPO should be held, but agreed that the

meeting might be done more informally. SHPO could be asked how professional the

City and the Committee were, and how they compared to other communities. The

Committee would like to gain an understanding of where they are coming from.

Mr. Webster stated he had held a discussion with the SHPO representatives during

the Open House about views, orchard views, and the removal of trees on historic

properties. He was informed that tax credits would not be available for that type of

work.

Chairperson Thompson clarified that there was a consensus among the Committee

Members to schedule a meeting with representatives of SHPO. The Committee

agreed an informal meeting should be scheduled.

Mr. Delacourt asked if the Committee wanted to proceed with the two delisting

Preliminary Reports. The Committee agreed to schedule the Reports for the next

meeting, which would give the new Members an opportunity to review the reports,

and the Committee an opportunity to meet with SHPO to find out if there were some

specific items the Committee should consider before proceeding. The Committee did

not want Ms. Kidorf to do any additional work on the properties until they had some

clarification from SHPO.

This matter was Discussed

7B.

2007-0888

Update - Outstanding Preliminary Reports

Mr. Delacourt stated the Committee had discussed the three delisting Preliminary

Reports as part of the prior Agenda item.

Frank Farm Preliminary Report:

The Preliminary Report has been sent to the State Historic Preservation Office

(SHPO) for review. When the SHPO comments are received, the Public Hearing will

be scheduled.

Stiles School (3976 S. Livernois):

The Preliminary Report has been forwarded to the SHPO for review, and a copy was

forward to a representative of the Steiner School with an invitation to call to discuss

the proposed designation. Mr. Delacourt stated he had not received any response

from the School. No review comments had been received from SHPO as of this time.

The Committee discussed the size of the parcel included in the proposed designation,

which would include the entire school building - both the original school building and

all additions. It was noted the School had been in transition for some time regarding

the purchase of the school; the fire at the school, and a lack of an administrator for the

School.

Stoney Creek Redistricting:

The consultant had not been requested to begin any work on the redistricting of the

Stoney Creek Historic District to date. Ms. Kidorf had indicated that quite a bit of

work had been done by Dr. Jane Busch on the District during her 2002 Intensive

Level Survey, and estimated the cost for any additional work necessary to prepare the

Preliminary Report to run about $3,500.00.

This matter was Discussed

NEW BUSINESS

8.

8A.

2007-0885

Election of Officers - 2008

(1) Election of Chairperson:

Chairperson Thompson opened the floor for nominations for the position of

Chairperson. Mr. Webster nominated Jason Thompson. There being no other

nominations, the floor was closed for nominations. Jason Thompson was unanimously

elected to the office of Chairperson of the Historic Districts Study Committee for a

term ending December 31, 2008.

(2) Election of Vice Chairperson:

Chairperson Thompson opened the floor for nominations for the position of Vice

Chairperson. Dr. Stamps was nominated. Chairperson Thompson called for any

additional nominations. Upon hearing none, he closed the floor for nominations, and

Dr. Stamps was unanimously elected to the office of Vice Chairperson of the Historic

Districts Study Committee, for a term ending December 31, 2008.

(3) Election of Secretary:

Chairperson Thompson explained it was common practice for Boards and

Commissions to nominate City Staff for the position of secretary, and the nomination

of the Planning & Development Department was so made. Chairperson Thompson

called for any additional nominations. Upon hearing none, he closed the floor for

nominations and the Planning & Development Department was unanimously elected to

the office of Secretary of the Historic Districts Study Committee for the term ending

December 31, 2008.

This matter was Approved

8B.

2007-0886

Establish 2008 Meeting Schedule

After a brief discussion, the Committee established the following meeting schedule for

2008:

This matter was Approved

The Historic Districts Study Committee hereby establishes its 2008 meeting schedule as

follows:

Meetings will be held on the second Thursday of each month at the Rochester Hills

Municipal Offices, 1000 Rochester Hills Drive, Rochester Hills, Michigan, and will begin at

5:30 PM Michigan Time.

2008 Meeting Dates

January 10, 2008 July 10, 2008

February 14, 2008 August 14, 2008

March 13, 2008 September 11, 2008

April 10, 2008 October 9, 2008

May 8, 2008 November 13, 2008

June 12, 2008 December 11, 2008

2007-0313

8C.

2040 South Livernois

- Discussion re National Register Application/Funding

Mr. Delacourt explained that this property was on the City's Potential List, and would

be impacted by the Livernois and Hamlin intersection work. A Section 6 Study had

been done, which indicated the house had historical integrity. Subsequently, a

Memorandum of Agreement (MOA) was reached between the Road Commission for

Oakland County, the City, the Michigan Department of Transportation, and the State

Historic Preservation Office to mitigate any impact concerns. The MOA required the

completion of a National Register Nomination for the structure. The research work

done for the National Register Nomination will also generate information necessary to

complete a Preliminary Report for the site.

Mr. Delacourt explained the impact to the property with the proposed round-about

design would be minimal and consisted of about thirteen feet of impact that could be

mitigated through landscaping.

Mr. Delacourt stated it was hoped that through economy of scale, the work for the

National Register Nomination and the Preliminary Report could be completed at the

same time through the City's consultant, Kristine Kidorf. He indicated the City's

Engineering Department was working with the Road Commission to determine if the

City's standards for the bid/selection process qualified for the County's standards for

their bid/selection process. If the standards are acceptable, the City would

recommend Ms. Kidorf to complete the National Register Nomination as her research

on for the National Register Nomination would be essentially the same as what was

needed to prepare a Preliminary Report for local designation. No time line for the

nomination work has been established to date.

This matter was Discussed

8D.

2007-0889

HDC Resident Workshops

Mr. Delacourt advised the Committee that based on the results of surveys the Historic

Districts Commission (HDC) had distributed during the Open House event held last

May, 2007, the Commission would be scheduling some workshops geared towards

the needs of residents who owned historic properties. He indicated a General

Maintenance workshop would be held on a Saturday morning at the Dairy Barn at the

Van Hoosen Museum in early February or March. The workshop would be

presented by the Michigan Historic Preservation Network.

On April 10, 2008, a Tax Credits workshop would be held at the City Municipal

Offices. Mr. Delacourt explained a short tax credits presentation was made at the

Open House, which was very well received and that a more in-depth presentation had

been requested. A representative from the State Historic Preservation Office would

give the presentation.

Mr. Delacourt stated that a third workshop focusing on window restoration may be

held, but was still under consideration.

This matter was Discussed

ANY OTHER BUSINESS

9.

Chairperson Thompson called for any other business. No other business was

presented. Chairperson Thompson noted that the next regular meeting is scheduled

for February 14, 2008.

ADJOURNMENT

10.

Upon motion duly made and seconded, Chairperson Thompson adjourned the

meeting at 6:25 PM.

________________________________________

Jason Thompson, Chairperson

City of Rochester Hills

Historic Districts Study Committee

________________________________________

Judy A. Bialk, Recording Secretary

Approved as presented at the March 13, 2008 Regular Historic Districts Study Committee

Meeting