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Rochester Hills

Minutes

Historic Districts Study Committee

Chairperson Jason Thompson, Vice Chairperson Dr. Richard Stamps

Members: John Dziurman, James Hannick, Peggy Schodowski, LaVere Webster, Murray

Woolf

5:30 PM

1000 Rochester Hills Drive

Thursday, July 16, 2009

MINUTES of a ROCHESTER HILLS RESCHEDULED REGULAR HISTORIC DISTRICTS

STUDY COMMITTEE meeting held at the City Municipal Offices, 1000 Rochester Hills Drive,

Rochester Hills, Oakland County, Michigan.

CALL TO ORDER

1.

Chairperson Thompson called the meeting to order at 5:41 PM.

ROLL CALL

2.

Richard Stamps, John Dziurman, Jason Thompson and James Hannick

Present

4 -

LaVere Webster, Peggy Schodowski and Murray Woolf

Absent

3 -

Others Present: Derek Delacourt, Deputy Director, Planning Department

Judy Bialk, Recording Secretary

DETERMINATION OF A QUORUM

3.

Chairperson Thompson stated for the record that a quorum was present.

APPROVAL OF MINUTES

4.

4A.

2009-0224

May 14, 2009 Regular Meeting Minutes

Chairperson Thompson asked for any comments or corrections regarding the May

14, 2009 Regular Meeting Minutes. Upon hearing no comments or corrections, he

called for a motion to approve.

A motion was made by Stamps, seconded by Hannick, that the Minutes be

Approved as Presented. The motion CARRIED by the following vote:

Aye

Stamps, Dziurman, Thompson and Hannick

4 -

Absent

Webster, Schodowski and Woolf

3 -

RESOLVED that the Minutes of the May 14, 2009 Regular Historic Districts Study

Committee Meeting be approved as presented.

4B.

2009-0259

June 11, 2009 Regular Meeting Minutes

Chairperson Thompson asked for any comments or corrections regarding the June 11,

2009 Regular Meeting Minutes. Upon hearing no comments or corrections, he called

for a motion to approve.

A motion was made by Stamps, seconded by Hannick, that the Minutes be

Approved as Presented. The motion CARRIED by the following vote:

Aye

Stamps, Dziurman, Thompson and Hannick

4 -

Absent

Webster, Schodowski and Woolf

3 -

RESOLVED that the Minutes of the June 11, 2009 Regular Historic Districts Study

Committee Meeting be approved as presented.

ANNOUNCEMENTS/COMMUNICATIONS

5.

Chairperson Thompson asked if there were any announcements or communications.

No announcements or communications were provided.

PUBLIC COMMENTS (Non-Agenda Items)

6.

Chairperson Thompson called for any public comments. No public comments were

received.

UNFINISHED BUSINESS

7.

7A.

2009-0226

Follow-up regarding City Council Meeting

- June 1, 2009 Regular City Council Meeting

Dr. Stamps stated he had a discussion with Lynn Evans of the Fort Mackinaw State

Park about the importance of selecting a time period to focus on for historic properties

as he had noticed that Fort Mackinaw was currently emphasizing the Colonial French

period. The Committee could apply that same thought process by looking at the

whole history of the Stiles School structure and defining the boundary, noting the

request that went before City Council was to approve designation of a larger area

including all additions to the structure. He suggested perhaps the Committee could go

back to City Council and propose that just the 1920s building (the brick portion) be

designated. He thought that both City Council and the Steiner School might support

that, although he was not sure if that would set a precedent.

Mr. Dziurman was not sure that designating a portion of a building would meet the

State Law criteria. He believed the Committee had always focused on a date as a

reference point. He questioned whether such a proposed designation could be done

and whether it would meet the National Register requirements. He agreed it made

sense to pick an era. If such a designation was allowed, it would be a way to

designate the building and stay within the Standards.

Chairperson Thompson commented that if only the 1920s portion of the building was

designated, it would prohibit anything drastic occurring on the rest of the property.

The Committee discussed whether the Ordinance required the entire parcel to be

designated. Past practice has been by the parcel. The Committee discussed limiting

the designation to the footprint of the structure including the land running to the

intersection of South Boulevard and Livernois, and whether the boiler room addition

would be included. It was suggested that the existing structures be checked against

the era selected as the focus of the proposed designation.

The Committee discussed the date of the additions, and whether such a narrow focus

was outside the charge of the Committee.

Mr. Dziurman suggested the Committee could try to obtain a copy of the Sanborn

Insurance Maps, which would tell them what structures existed when. He did not

think a subscription was very expensive, and noted engineering firms used those maps

all the time. The Committee requested City Staff find out if the City's Engineering

Department had access to the Sanborn Maps, and requested copies of the 1929 and

1959 maps. The Committee suggested perhaps the City Preservation Consultant had

access to the maps. The maps would tell the Committee when the various additions

were added.

The Committee discussed the fact that City Council had postponed this matter

pending receipt of further information from the Committee. They discussed the fact it

did not appear City Council was willing to designate any property without the

property owner's consent.

The Committee discussed the Frank Farm proposed designation, noting the property

owner wanted the designation; however, the second generation of that family did not.

This matter was Discussed

7B.

2009-0225

Follow-up regarding Presentation to Planning Commission

- June 16, 2009 Regular Planning Commission Meeting

The Committee discussed the fact that the Planning Commissioners appeared to feel

the same as City Council about designation without a property owner's consent,

despite the fact the Planning Commission had worked on several parcels involving

designated districts.

Mr. Dziurman commented that the Rochester College situation had ended well. He

suggested the Committee needed to develop a long-term approach that included more

marketing and an understanding of property rights.

Mr. Hannick asked who the Committee would market to, or whether that would

move outside the parameters of the Committee's charge. Mr. Thompson thought any

marketing would have to be fairly broad and to the Community as a whole, and noted

the Historic Districts Commission was charged with education of the Community.

The Committee noted they were attempting to respond to requests from City Council

for additional information regarding both the Stiles School and the Frank Farm. The

Committee discussed whether they should take the entire Potential Property List to

City Council and ask them what should be studied by the Committee. Doing so might

provide the Committee with a clear direction.

The Committee felt it was good they had met with the Planning Commission in an

effort to be transparent, open and to find out what was important to the Planning

Commission. No properties were under development pressure at this time, and no

potential structures were under threat of demolition.

The reason for meeting with the Planning Commission was to develop a relationship

with them, hold a discussion and establish whether the Committee and Planning

Commission could help each other.

Educational outreach would also be helpful, such as what resources exist in the City

and what is left. Perhaps the Rochester-Avon Historical Society could be

approached to give a talk about the City's resources, or perhaps focus on a particular

potential property, such as National Twist Drill.

This matter was Discussed

7C.

2008-0663

National Twist Drill

- Discussion

Dr. Stamps stated that a group called the Friends of Tienken Road had held public

meetings to discuss the plans for Tienken Road and all the features situated along that

Road, such as the trail, schools, and the neighborhood community in general. That

large coalition was creating awareness within the Community.

The Committee proposed designation of National Twist Drill because it was

important, however, the owner did not want designation at this time.

Mr. Delacourt noted that the Committee was not limited to any specific time frame

with this property as no Public Hearing had been held. Once the Public Hearing is

held, the Ordinance set out specific time parameters that had to be met.

Mr. Dziurman stated he had spoken to a person who was knowledgeable about tax

credits and historical tax credits who used to reside in the area. He suggested the

Committee develop a package that provided information about the value of those tax

credits. That information could be provided to the property owner to help them

understand the benefits associated with designation.

Dr. Stamps suggested perhaps the Committee could hold a public meeting with the

property owners. The Committee and the preservation consultant could stage a dialog

pertaining to designation; the historical value of the resources and potential properties,

and the benefits associated with designation.

Mr. Delacourt stated that the current owners of the National Twist Drill property were

interested in selling the property, and would not embrace designation unless a potential

purchaser wanted the designation.

The Committee pointed out that several buildings located in the City of Detroit had

been rehabilitated and renovated through the use of tax credits.

The Committee suggested they meet with the City's Economic Development Manager,

who could provide the Committee with an overview of what he does. Perhaps the

property rights issue would not be as complicated if property owners were aware of

the credits available for renovation and rehabilitation of historic properties.

The Committee noted that discussion was held with the Planning Commission as it

related to the advantages of Planned Unit Development projects and designated

properties.

Mr. Delacourt stated that the National Twist Drill property owners were aware of the

tax credits and the Planned Unit Development options. They would not pursue those

options unless they had a purchaser who was interested in those options.

The Committee discussed the current zoning of the National Twist Drill property

which is Industrial. The property is master planned for Flexible Business which allows

mixed use development and which excludes large format retail. Flexible Business

would allow office and business uses, as well as residential in some instances. The

reason behind the Flexible Business zoning is that sufficient commercial retail currently

exists at that intersection.

The Committee discussed the fact that in the event a project of that type was

proposed, the property owner would request a rezoning or the use of a Planned Unit

Development agreement. Mr. Delacourt pointed out that the current property owners

would not make those requests, but would leave that decision to a potential purchaser.

The Planned Unit Development process was discussed, noting that such a

development is a negotiated development through the Planned Unit Development

Agreement. Dr. Stamps noted that was the situation with Rochester College, which

allowed the historic farmhouse to be saved.

The Committee agreed the City's Economic Development Manager would be invited

to attend the next Study Committee meeting and provide an overview of what the City

can offer potential purchasers.

Dr. Stamps stated that designation could give property owners some protection if they

had a better understanding of the process, and that there are some good reasons for

designation.

Chairperson Thompson summarized that City Staff would attempt to obtain Sanborn

Maps and that the City’s Economic Development Manager would be invited to the

next Study Committee Meeting.

The Committee discussed whether the Rochester-Avon Historical Society could be

approached about a program on the National Twist Drill property. Mr. Dziurman

stated that Rod Wilson was the current President of the Society and he understood

that a relative of Rod's had worked at the company.

Mr. Delacourt suggested the Committee could notify City Council that the National

Twist Drill Preliminary Report had been prepared; however, due to the fact the

current property owners are not in favor of designation, the report would be tabled

until a future development is identified.

The Committee would finish the process in connection with any future development for

the site. In that situation, the City would be dealing with a developer rather than a

long-standing property owner. Any future developer discussing the property with the

City would be advised of the potential designation during development discussions.

Mr. Dziurman pointed out that any developer looking at the site would do their "due

diligence" before purchasing the property.

Dr. Stamps asked if the property would be flagged in some manner indicating that the

Preliminary Report had been prepared. The Committee noted the property owner

might not want potential purchasers to look at the report.

Mr. Delacourt suggested the Study Committee could advise City Council they would

not make a recommendation at this time, but would come back when they could work

with a potential purchaser.

The Committee suggested that any potential purchaser be advised they could meet

with the Committee and that the Committee would be happy to work with them. Tax

credits information should also be provided to any potential purchaser.

Chairperson Thompson summarized that the National Twist Drill report would be

tabled until the next Study Committee meeting pending the discussion with the City's

Economic Development Manager.

This matter was Discussed

7D.

2007-0313

2040 S. Livernois

- Discussion

Mr. Delacourt stated the exterior of the house had recently been repainted white. The

house is currently listed for sale. He noted that the current owner and her attorney

were well aware of what designation meant, and all related information had been

provided to them for use as an additional sales tool. The current owner indicated she

would prefer to leave the question of designation up to any future owner.

Mr. Dziurman clarified that the current zoning of the property is residential, which is

correct.

The Committee discussed whether any other improvements had been made to the

house. Mr. Delacourt stated he was only aware of the exterior painting.

Chairperson Thompson suggested the Committee handle this report in the same

manner as the National Twist Drill report would be handled. No recommendation

would be made pending the sale of the property and discussion with the new owner.

This matter was Discussed

ANY OTHER BUSINESS

8.

The Committee discussed the fact that property owners had a fear of the unknown

and how the Committee could deal with that question.

Mr. Delacourt stated Council had asked the Committee to work with the property

owners. Chairperson Thompson stated the Committee had a very limited charge per

the Ordinance, but that Council had asked for more. Mr. Delacourt stated that

Council had asked the Committee to work with the owners and to come up with

something the owners could agree to.

The Committee discussed the charge of the Historic Districts Commission which

included an educational component. It was noted the Commission did not review a

property unless it was designated.

Chairperson Thompson called for any other business. No other business was

presented. He summarized that the Committee would meet with the City's Economic

Development Manager at the next meeting, and the National Twist Drill and 2040 S.

Livernois Preliminary Reports would be forwarded to City Council after that meeting

with no recommendation at the present time.

Chairperson Thompson stated that the next regular meeting was scheduled for

Thursday, August 13, 2009 at 5:30 PM.

ADJOURNMENT

9.

Upon motion duly made and seconded, Chairperson Thompson adjourned the

meeting at 6:35 PM.

___________________________________

Jason Thompson, Chairperson

City of Rochester Hills

Historic Districts Study Committee

___________________________________

Judy A. Bialk, Recording Secretary

{Approved as amended at the September 10, 2009 Regular Historic Districts Study Committee Meeting}