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1000 ‎Rochester Hills Dr‎. ‎

Rochester Hills, MI ‎

48309‎

(‎248‎) ‎656‎-‎4600‎

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Rochester Hills

Minutes

Planning Commission

7:00 PM

1000 Rochester Hills Drive

Tuesday, October 7, 1997

CALL TO ORDER

Chairperson Eric Kaiser called the Regular Meeting to order at ‎7‎:‎30 ‎p‎.‎m‎. ‎in ‎

the Auditorium‎.‎

ROLL CALL

Present PC‎: ‎Chairperson Eric Kaiser‎

William Boswell‎

John Gaber‎

Paul Krupa‎

Eugene Nowicki‎

Christian Ramanauskas‎

Gerald Robbins‎

James Rosen‎

Audrey Ruggiero‎

Absent PC‎: ‎None‎

Quorum present‎

Also present‎: ‎Paul Rizzardi, Planner‎

Susanne Vergeldt, Recording Secretary‎

APPROVAL OF MINUTES

2000-1796

September ‎16‎, ‎1997 ‎Regular Meeting‎

Correction to Minutes‎: ‎Page ‎8‎, Paragraph ‎4‎, Line ‎1‎:‎

Change‎:‎ Dilodoau‎

To‎:‎ Bilodeau‎

Correction to Minutes‎: ‎Page ‎9‎, Paragraph ‎9‎, Line ‎1‎:‎

Change‎:‎ Dilodoau‎

To‎:‎ Bilodeau‎

MOTION‎ by Robbins, seconded by Nowicki, that the Minutes dated ‎

September ‎16‎, ‎1997 ‎be accepted as corrected‎.‎

Ayes‎:‎ All‎

Nays‎:‎ None ‎MOTION CARRIED‎

Approved as Amended

COMMUNICATIONS

A‎.‎ Planning Oakland‎, Fall ‎1997‎ issue‎

B‎.‎ Letter dated October ‎6‎, ‎1997‎ from Gerald and Brenda Diez regarding ‎

Agenda Item IV‎.‎A‎.‎

C‎.‎ Letter dated October ‎6‎, ‎1997‎ from Michael Moffitt regarding Agenda ‎

Item IV‎.‎A‎.‎

D‎.‎ Planning & Zoning News‎, August ‎1997‎

UNFINISHED BUSINESS

2000-1691

Request for a Tree Removal Permit ‎- ‎File No‎. ‎87‎-‎900‎.‎3‎, North Oaks Subdivision ‎

No‎. ‎3‎, an ‎8‎-‎lot subdivision on ‎7‎.‎04 ‎acres, located on the south side of Dutton, ‎

west of Livernois, Parcel No‎. ‎15‎-‎04‎-‎201‎-‎003‎, zoned R‎-‎1‎, One Family ‎

Residential, Singh Development, ‎7125 ‎Orchard Lake Rd‎.‎, Suite ‎200‎, West ‎

Bloomfield, MI ‎48325‎, Applicant‎

(‎Ref‎. ‎Staff Report prepared by Paul Rizzardi dated October ‎1‎, ‎1997 ‎has been placed ‎

on file and by reference becomes part of the record hereof‎.)‎

The Chair announced that he received a phone call last night regarding Agenda Item ‎

IV‎.‎A‎. ‎requesting that this item be tabled‎. ‎In talking with Planning Director Patricia ‎

Goodwin today he discovered that the notice provisions, having recently been ‎

changed in the Tree Conservation Ordinance, have not been fully met for the subject ‎

Tree Removal Permit‎. ‎Because the revised notice provisions were not complied with, ‎

the commission will not entertain any action this evening regarding the Tree Removal ‎

Permit‎. ‎A full discussion with the applicant will be conducted this evening to exhaust ‎

all issues that may arise‎. ‎The item will be renoticed with the full ‎7‎-‎day provision and ‎

will appear on the agenda for the next regular meeting scheduled for October ‎21‎, ‎

1997‎. ‎

Present for the applicant were Michael Kahm and David Zaitchik of Singh ‎

Development Company‎. ‎They displayed a colored rendering of the proposed ‎

development‎.‎

Mr‎. ‎Rizzardi stated a recommended condition of approval of the Tree Removal Permit ‎

was omitted from the staff report and now is a moot issue for tonight only, that ‎

additional replacement credits be provided for the trees that will be removed within ‎

the Dutton Road right‎-‎of‎-‎way‎.‎

Mr‎. ‎Kahm gave an historical perspective on the development‎. ‎North Oaks ‎

Subdivision No‎. ‎3 ‎originally received tentative preliminary plat approval in ‎1993 ‎with ‎

the placement of the road on the east side of the development rather than in its current ‎

location on the west side‎. ‎They found that road placement did not work from a ‎

construction perspective because a ‎15 ‎foot high retaining wall would have been ‎

required to support the road due to the severe slope from west to east‎. ‎All the lots in ‎

the proposed subdivision will be walkouts‎. ‎The city recommended that the developer ‎

meet with the surrounding homeowners of North Oaks No‎. ‎1 ‎whose lots back up to ‎

the proposed North Oaks No‎. ‎3 ‎development to make sure they were aware of the ‎

impact this project would have on them‎. ‎Several meetings were conducted with the ‎

affected residents‎. ‎

Mr‎. ‎Kahm summarized the concerns of the surrounding residents, including the ‎

proximity of the road; treatment of the severe slope along the western property line ‎

and buffers; setbacks for side yards abutting existing rear yards‎. ‎To address the ‎

setback concerns Singh Development has committed to a ‎25 ‎foot setback instead of ‎

the ‎15 ‎foot setback required by ordinance, which is shown on the current plan, as part ‎

of the approval of the plat‎. ‎They even considered larger setbacks of as much as ‎50 ‎

feet, but found the severity of the topography would force a home farther down the ‎

slope and would result in a house in excess of ‎2 ‎stories‎. ‎Variances for more than ‎2 ‎

stories were requested from the Zoning Board of Appeals and were denied‎. ‎So they ‎

revised the plat as currently submitted‎. ‎

Mr‎. ‎Kahm stated that the staff report is very thorough and they have no disagreements ‎

with it‎.‎

The Chair invited comments from those in attendance at the meeting even though this ‎

was not a Public Hearing‎.‎

A letter has been received from ‎Michael Moffitt, ‎1936 ‎Archers Pointe,‎ ‎

dated October ‎6‎, ‎1997‎, which alludes to negotiations between the developer and the ‎

homeowners, expecting a written document stating the items agreed to by both ‎

parties‎. ‎Without that written document he is asking the Planning Commission to delay ‎

any action‎.‎

Mr‎. ‎Kahm responded that they have done the best they could to address the ‎

concerns of the homeowners considering the physical constraints of the land‎. ‎

They have voluntarily reduced the number of lots from ‎9 ‎to ‎8‎. ‎The written ‎

agreement would be the deed restrictions on the lots‎. ‎

Nadija Zarewych, ‎1972 ‎Tall Oaks,‎ concerned about trees being removed ‎

illegally as occurred in the past, and asked what supervision and enforcement would ‎

be done‎.‎

Mr‎. ‎Rizzardi explained construction plan review by Engineering Services and ‎

review of home placements by the Building Department‎. ‎He also explained ‎

the tree removal permit process and replacement requirements for violations‎. ‎

He encouraged citizens to be diligent watchdogs regarding tree removals‎. ‎

Joe Hilger, a recent purchaser of Lot ‎3 ‎at ‎1980 ‎Tall Oaks,‎ wondered by ‎

Singh Development would be allowed to continue while there are still so many open ‎

issues regarding the surrounding homeowners, water drainage on individual lots and ‎

throughout the proposed subdivision‎.‎

Mr‎. ‎Kahm responded that they have discussed the drainage problem between ‎

Lots ‎3 ‎and ‎4 ‎and are attempting to correct the problem‎. ‎He welcomed a list ‎

of problems from the residents that need to be addressed‎.‎

Tom Spix, ‎1177 ‎Mill Valley,‎ the lowest lot at ‎5 ‎feet below the road itself, ‎

currently experiences excessive amounts of water from neighboring lots when it rains, ‎

causing trees on his lot to die‎. ‎He is also speaking for his neighbors, one who dug a ‎

moat to handle excess water, and one whose barn is flooded every summer‎. ‎He ‎

asked that the neighboring lowland lots be considered during the drainage discussions‎. ‎

Removing more trees would seem to exacerbate the problem‎.‎

Mr‎. ‎Kahm responded when North Oaks No‎. ‎1 ‎was developed in ‎1987 ‎there ‎

was a problem with the creek in the southern portion of the development‎. ‎

They went door‎-‎to‎-‎door in the Paint Creek Hills Subdivision and asked the ‎

residents if there were any problems‎. ‎The storm water detention system in ‎

Phase ‎1 ‎and ‎2 ‎collectively has been designed to store a ‎10 ‎year storm, so the ‎

only runoff down the hill is an agricultural runoff to county and city standards‎. ‎

They have dramatically enlarged the storm sewer pipes to handle the storm ‎

water runoff will be stored underground and released at a controlled rate‎. ‎He ‎

cannot speak to the flooding in the adjacent area except that they have ‎

designed the system according to required standards‎. ‎They will be happy to ‎

investigate any problems they may have caused just as they did when they ‎

built Phase ‎1‎. ‎They have been in this city for ‎20 ‎years and they intend to do ‎

the right thing‎.‎

Len Laskowski, ‎1996 ‎Tall Oaks Blvd‎.‎,‎ owner of Lot ‎1 ‎since February and ‎

believes there has been enough time to notify lot owners of the proposed ‎

development‎. ‎He has heard about an agreement with the homeowners and would like ‎

more information regarding it‎. ‎He supported Mr‎. ‎Moffitt's comments‎. ‎More study ‎

needs to be done on the trees‎. ‎There appear to be inconsistencies between the ‎

numbered trees along Dutton Road and those shown on the plans‎.‎

The Chair responded regarding the tree study‎. ‎A letter dated August ‎1‎, ‎1997 ‎

from Linda ‎

Lemke & Associates, landscape consultant, indicating that the tree study is ‎

current‎. ‎

Richard J‎. ‎Bratkowski, ‎1756 ‎Archers Pointe,‎ Lot ‎9 ‎which is adjacent to ‎

Lot ‎107‎, favors a larger setback than ‎15 ‎feet and understands that the city cannot ‎

enforce covenants or deed restrictions for a ‎25 ‎foot setback‎. ‎

Mr‎. ‎Rizzardi responded that enforcing deed restrictions is a civil matter that is ‎

enforced through the court system‎.‎

Julie Belbot, ‎1375 ‎Dutton,‎ objected to the proposed cut in Dutton Road for ‎

the deceleration lane‎. ‎She would have great difficulty exiting her driveway because the ‎

line of sight does not allow full view of the top of the hill‎. ‎Dutton has been declared a ‎

Natural Beauty Road and this may affect its beauty‎. ‎

Mr‎. ‎Kahm stated they will comply with the sight distance requirements set by ‎

the Road Commission for Oakland County‎. ‎Some minor grading may be ‎

required along Dutton Road‎. ‎Some trees will need to be removed for the ‎

curb cut but they will not remove more trees than is necessary‎. ‎Any trees ‎

removed will be replaced elsewhere in the development‎.‎

Mr‎. ‎Rizzardi responded that a more detailed study will be made after tentative ‎

preliminary plat approval through Engineering Services‎. ‎When the county ‎

road permit is applied for, the road concerns will be studied more closely‎. ‎

This is the normal procedure‎. ‎The city must grant access to a property, ‎

weighing many factors such as sight distance‎. ‎

Art Belbot, ‎1375 ‎Dutton,‎ whose main concern was drainage and the ‎

possibility of being flooded out‎. ‎He has never been invited to any of the meetings ‎

mentioned, and his property is adjacent‎. ‎

Mr‎. ‎Kahm responded that their primary focus for notifying residents was to ‎

the adjacent property owners of Phase ‎1‎. ‎He apologized for excluding him ‎

and would make arrangements to include him in future discussions‎.‎

Tom Carey, ‎1988 ‎Tall Oaks Blvd‎. ‎Lot ‎2‎,‎ the newest homeowner in North ‎

Oaks, at one point was told that the subject site, directly behind his lot, would not be ‎

developed‎. ‎If the outstanding issues cannot be resolved, he wondered if Singh would ‎

consider turning the site into a conservancy to remain as is‎. ‎He has observed deer ‎

running through the site‎. ‎

There were no further comments from the public‎.‎

Regarding references made to outstanding issues with Phase I, Mr‎. ‎Rizzardi stated he ‎

has no knowledge of any but was not involved in the development of Phase ‎1‎. ‎

Regarding Phase III he has nothing in his files indicating any violations have occurred ‎

at this point‎. ‎To his knowledge the total of ‎300 ‎regulated trees on the site is accurate‎.‎

Mr‎. ‎Kahm provided the following responses to questions from Member Krupa‎. ‎

Drainage Areas ‎1 ‎and ‎2 ‎on the preliminary plat are tributary areas showing the existing ‎

drainage swale running through the length of the site down to Mill Valley‎. ‎It is not ‎

something they are constructing; they are merely working with the existing topography‎. ‎

Because of the physical limitations of the site it is impossible to access the north ‎

portion of the site from Phase ‎1‎. ‎The proposed East Way cul‎-‎de‎-‎sac meets the ‎

maximum allowable slope for a city street‎. ‎The park at the southeast corner of the ‎

proposed development is bordered by residences to the east and south‎.‎

Member Rosen confirmed with Mr‎. ‎Rizzardi that requiring an increased setback from ‎

15 ‎to ‎25 ‎feet cannot be placed on a preliminary plat approval even though the ‎

increased setback may be shown ‎

on the preliminary plat‎. ‎The submitted drawing indicates that a reasonable building ‎

envelope can still be achieved even with an increased side‎-‎yard‎-‎to‎-‎rear‎-‎yard setback ‎

of ‎25 ‎feet‎. ‎The Building Department can only enforce the required ‎15 ‎foot setback‎. ‎

A setback of ‎25 ‎feet would be enforceable only through deed restrictions and ‎

covenants‎. ‎

Member Ruggiero had spoken to Mr‎. ‎Moffitt who mentioned a lawsuit between the ‎

present homeowners of North Oaks and an injunction which may have implications on ‎

the proposed development‎. ‎Mr‎. ‎Kahm added that they agreed with Phase ‎1 ‎

homeowners to increase the minimum size of the homes to be consistent with the ‎

existing surrounding homes as a result of the lawsuit‎. ‎Member Ruggiero confirmed ‎

with Mr‎. ‎Rizzardi that the conditions of Linda Lemke's letter dated August ‎1‎, ‎1997 ‎

have been met‎.‎

Member Ramanauskas clarified the grade changes with Mr‎. ‎Kahm‎. ‎Member ‎

Ramanauskas looked for a way to achieve two entrance points without cutting into ‎

Dutton Road, thereby preserving its natural beauty‎. ‎Mr‎. ‎Kahm responded that they ‎

looked at alternative locations for the road but they were determined unfeasible ‎

because of the severe grade changes and the mammoth retaining walls that would be ‎

required‎. ‎The two proposed cul‎-‎de‎-‎sacs are shown on the plan at close to the same ‎

elevation with a deep valley between them‎.‎

In response to questions from Member Rosen Mr‎. ‎Kahm explained that they did not ‎

own the subject parcel at the time North Oaks ‎1 ‎and ‎2 ‎were built‎. ‎They were ‎

required by the city to stub East Way for a potential future development of the subject ‎

site‎. ‎The North Oaks development would have turned out quite differently if they had ‎

been able to purchase the subject parcel when the rest of the land was purchased‎.‎

Member Gaber confirmed with Mr‎. ‎Kahm that the proposed apron on Dutton Road ‎

to the west of the proposed development is required by the Road Commission for ‎

Oakland County, even though it is a Natural Beauty Road‎. ‎It is similar to what exists ‎

for Phase I‎. ‎It seemed to be an extreme requirement for only ‎5 ‎lots that would be ‎

using the road, but it is required‎. ‎Perhaps some type of variance should be ‎

researched‎. ‎Regarding the request for the bikepath waiver on the east side of the ‎

entrance road, Mr‎. ‎Kahm explained that Phase I has a bikepath; Phase II has no ‎

bikepath as requested by City Council at the time; there was debate, perhaps not yet ‎

resolved, on whether or not a bikepath was desirable on Dutton Road‎. ‎The current ‎

request for a waiver is a continuation of that earlier one by City Council‎. ‎They are ‎

willing to install a bikepath if necessary‎. ‎The tree count may be affected if they are ‎

required to install the bikepath‎.‎

The Chair was not aware of any mechanism to waive bikepath requirements‎. ‎It was ‎

Member Rosen's understanding that City Council merely asked the developer to not ‎

install the bikepath until Council made a decision‎. ‎The Chair thought it would be ‎

difficult for the Planning Commission to recommend approval of a tentative preliminary ‎

plat with a bikepath waiver‎. ‎

The Chair mentioned that the Environmental Impact Statement states there are no ‎

animals on the site when residents this evening have mentioned the presence of deer‎. ‎

Mr‎. ‎Kahm could not explain the discrepancy and apologized for it‎. ‎It obviously ‎

requires closer scrutiny‎.‎

Member Ruggiero pointed out that the tree removal table needs to be revised to be ‎

consistent with the plan‎. ‎Mr‎. ‎Kahm stated their preference is to plant replacement ‎

trees in the North Oaks developments; Member Ruggiero concurred‎. ‎Mr‎. ‎Rizzardi ‎

pointed out that replacement trees cannot be planted in a wooded site as they simply ‎

will not grow‎. ‎The alternative would be to plant replacement trees on individual lots ‎

outside the building envelopes and somehow assure they would not be cut down‎. ‎Mr‎. ‎

Kahm offered to place in the deed restrictions that a certain number of trees would be ‎

required to be planted so landscapers would not remove them indiscriminately‎. ‎

This item has been ‎POSTPONED‎ until the next regular meeting of October ‎21‎, ‎1997 ‎

to allow ‎

time to renotice adjacent property owners regarding the Tree Removal Permit for File ‎

No‎. ‎87‎-‎900‎.‎3 ‎(‎North Oaks Subdivision No‎. ‎3‎).‎

(‎Reference‎: ‎Staff Report prepared by Paul Rizzardi dated October ‎1‎, ‎1997‎; ‎

Preliminary Plan Sheets prepared by Giffels Webster and dated received by the City ‎

of Rochester Hills Planning Department on September ‎23‎, ‎1997‎; letter from Linda ‎

Lemke & Associates dated August ‎1‎, ‎1997‎; North Oaks Phase III Tree ‎

Replacement Cost Estimate prepared by Singh Development Co‎.‎, Inc‎. ‎dated ‎

September ‎23‎, ‎1997‎; letter from G‎. ‎Michael Kahm dated December ‎16‎, ‎1996‎; letter ‎

from G‎. ‎Michael Kahm dated June ‎27‎, ‎1996‎; letter from G‎. ‎Michael Kahm dated ‎

May ‎18‎, ‎1995‎; Planning Commission Meeting Minutes of January ‎21‎, ‎1997‎; Zoning ‎

Board of Appeals Meeting Minutes of May ‎12‎, ‎1997‎; Planning Commission Meeting ‎

Minutes of December ‎17‎, ‎1996‎; Planning Commission Meeting Minutes of November ‎

16‎, ‎1993‎; Environmental Impact Statement dated July ‎18‎, ‎1990‎.)‎

----------------------------------‎

[ ‎Recess ‎8:52‎ p‎.‎m‎. - ‎9:00‎ p‎.‎m‎. ‎

Postponed

2000-1458

Request for an Tentative Preliminary Plat Approval ‎- ‎File No‎. ‎87‎-‎900‎.‎3 ‎- ‎North ‎

Oaks Subdivision ‎- ‎Phase III, a ‎8‎-‎lot subdivision on ‎7‎.‎04 ‎acres, located on the ‎

south side of Dutton, west of Livernois, Parcel No‎. ‎15‎-‎04‎-‎201‎-‎004‎, zoned R‎-‎1‎, ‎

One Family Residential, Michael Kahm, Singh Development Company, Ltd‎.‎, ‎

7125 ‎Orchard Lake Road, Suite ‎200‎, West Bloomvield, MI ‎48325‎, Applicant‎

Postponed

NEW BUSINESS

2000-1797

Request for a Tree Removal Permit ‎- ‎File No‎. ‎96‎-‎011‎.‎2 ‎- ‎Quailcrest ‎

Subdivision, a ‎46‎-‎lot subdivision on ‎22 ‎acres, located at the northwest corner of ‎

Orion and Rochester Roads, Parcel No‎. ‎15‎-‎03‎-‎426‎-‎002‎, zoned RCD, One ‎

Family Cluster, Singh Development Company, Ltd‎.‎, ‎7125 ‎Orchard Lake Rd‎.‎, ‎

Suite ‎200‎, West Bloomfield, MI ‎48325‎, Applicant‎

The Chair stated in talking with Planning Director Patricia Goodwin today it was ‎

discovered that the notice provisions, having recently been changed in the Tree ‎

Conservation Ordinance, have not been fully met for the subject Tree Removal ‎

Permit‎. ‎Because the revised notice provisions were not complied with, the ‎

commission will not entertain any action this evening regarding the Tree Removal ‎

Permit‎. ‎A full discussion with the applicant will be conducted this evening to exhaust ‎

all issues that may arise‎. ‎The item will be renoticed with the full ‎7‎-‎day provision and ‎

will appear on the agenda for the next regular meeting scheduled for October ‎21‎, ‎

1997‎. ‎

(‎Ref‎. ‎Staff Report prepared by Paul Rizzardi dated October ‎1‎, ‎1997 ‎has been placed ‎

on file and by reference becomes part of the record hereof‎.)‎

Present for the applicant were Michael Kahm and David Zaitchik of Singh ‎

Development Company‎. ‎They displayed a colored rendering of the proposed ‎

development‎.‎

Mr‎. ‎Rizzardi stated since the subject project was originally proposed about a year and ‎

a half ago, the applicant has switched the development from a condominium ‎

development to a single family residential development, which is permitted in the RCD, ‎

One Family Cluster zoning district according to the R‎-‎3 ‎One Family Residential ‎

provisions‎. ‎If the buffer waiver is not granted, more trees would need to be removed, ‎

and the subdivision might possibly have to be redesigned in order to meet the ‎37 ‎

percent minimum tree preservation requirement‎. ‎

Mr‎. ‎Kahm stated that the staff report is pretty thorough and pointed out some unique ‎

features‎. ‎They are detaining two ‎(‎2‎) ‎one hundred year storms back‎-‎to‎-‎back to ‎

address the city's concerns ‎

about an adequate downstream outlet for drainage problems on adjacent properties‎. ‎

This detention capacity far exceeds what would normally be required for a single ‎

family subdivision‎. ‎Because of the water table in the subject area they are able to ‎

have permanent water levels within the detention basins and still achieve the required ‎

detention volume‎. ‎The detention basins are shown at the entrance to the subdivision ‎

and will be landscaped as decorative features‎. ‎On the northeast corner of the ‎

proposed subdivision is a treed area indicated on the plat as a woodland preservation ‎

area‎. ‎The trees will remain on the lots in that area and will be deed restricted‎.‎

The Chair accepted comments from the public although this was not a public hearing‎.‎

Jack Karbowski, ‎6400 ‎N‎. ‎Rochester Rd‎.‎,‎ whose property abuts the ‎

northern property line of the proposed development, stated he would like to see the ‎

existing buffer area retained to preserve the wildlife in the area‎. ‎He does not care ‎

about the retaining wall; he just doesn't want any trees removed‎. ‎

Member Nowicki suggested eliminating Lot ‎12 ‎and enlarging Lots ‎11 ‎and ‎13‎, ‎

leaving the rear of Lot ‎12 ‎as part of the tree conservation easement in the ‎

northeast corner of the site‎. ‎This would also eliminate the need for the ‎

retaining wall‎. ‎Member Ramanauskas concurred‎. ‎

Mr‎. ‎Kahm explained that the reason for the retaining wall is for land balancing ‎

and to save trees‎. ‎Mr‎. ‎Zaitchik added that they are raising the area in front of ‎

Lots ‎16 ‎thru ‎18 ‎and filling a valley in front of Lots ‎8‎, ‎9‎, and ‎10 ‎in order to ‎

create a roadway to reach Lots ‎11 ‎thru ‎15‎. ‎The existing grades are very ‎

severe‎. ‎They propose a reverse walkout design for three lots with the front of ‎

the houses at a lower grade than the back‎. ‎This enabled them to reduce the ‎

height of the wall for liability reasons and to gain more woodland area‎. ‎Some ‎

of the trees in the area of the proposed wall would have to be removed in ‎

order to construct the wall‎. ‎

In response to questions by Member Krupa, Mr‎. ‎Zaitchik explained that Pond ‎2 ‎was ‎

being excavated to supply fill for the road in the area mentioned earlier, even though it ‎

is a high spot‎. ‎The volume required to accommodate the required amount of storm ‎

water would take an enormous surface area‎. ‎Member Krupa wondered how water ‎

would drain uphill to Pond ‎2‎. ‎Pond ‎1 ‎and ‎2 ‎are connected so they are actually one ‎

pond‎. ‎The proposed development is bisected by a ridge line almost through the ‎

center of the site in a north‎/‎south direction‎. ‎Part of the existing water on the east side ‎

of the ridge line currently drains through an existing culvert at the intersection of Orion ‎

and Rochester Road and pools down on the Beaumont site‎. ‎The existing drainage on ‎

the west side of the ridge line currently drains through an existing pipe under Orion ‎

Road and goes along the west side of the Beaumont property‎. ‎They plan to restrict ‎

the water by providing two outlets as Ponds ‎1 ‎and ‎2 ‎to alleviate the existing ‎

conditions‎.‎

Member Nowicki mentioned that snow removal would be difficult in the ‎"‎eyebrows‎" ‎

or quasi‎-‎cul‎-‎de‎-‎sacs‎. ‎Snow usually gets dumped in residents' driveways and causes ‎

many complaints‎. ‎Perhaps they could be flattened out‎. ‎Member Rosen concurred‎.‎

Mr‎. ‎Zaitchik responded to Member Boswell's question that the distance from ‎

Rochester Road to the proposed boulevard entrance is approximately ‎300 ‎feet‎. ‎

Traffic is already a problem from Orion Road to Rochester Road heading south‎. ‎The ‎

Road Commission and City Traffic Engineer have reviewed the road layout and ‎

determined that the proposed location for the boulevard entrance is the best choice‎. ‎

The Traffic Engineer preferred they not access from Rochester Road because of the ‎

volume on Rochester compared to less traffic on Orion Road‎. ‎Line‎-‎of‎-‎sight distances ‎

were evaluated also in the placement of the boulevard entrance‎. ‎The Chair perceived ‎

"‎a nightmare‎" ‎at certain times of the day‎. ‎Neither would it be feasible to make the ‎

proposed entrances one way, each way‎. ‎Emergency access may be complicated with ‎

that system‎.‎

Heather Schram, ‎6666 ‎Orion,‎ could not envision cars existing the proposed ‎

development from Scarborough Lane and turning left onto Orion Road‎. ‎Many deer ‎

also get hit by cars in that area and cars ‎"‎fly‎" ‎around the curve‎. ‎She suggested moving ‎

the road farther north‎. ‎The area is congested now, and the addition of an estimated ‎

92 ‎cars would increase the congestion‎.‎

Mr‎. ‎Kahm stated the homes will range from ‎2700 ‎to ‎3000 ‎square feet in size ‎

and sell in the $‎300‎,‎000 ‎range‎.‎

Member Ruggiero concurred with previous comments made by commissioners and ‎

added they would satisfy some of the concerns expressed by Linda Lemke in her ‎

letter dated July ‎23‎, ‎1997‎. ‎She suggested the Environmental Impact Statement be ‎

updated before the next meeting to reflect the development as a subdivision and other ‎

points which are no longer relevant‎. ‎Member Boswell concurred‎.‎

Mr‎. ‎Rizzardi explained if the proposed development is approved and built, the Master ‎

Plan should probably reflect the actual zoning as R‎-‎3‎, One Family Residential rather ‎

than RCD, One Family Cluster‎. ‎But that can be explored during the upcoming Master ‎

Plan update‎. ‎There may be advantages to the applicant pursuing a rezoning‎.‎

Mr‎. ‎Kahm summarized that the most salient point discussed this evening was the ‎

elimination of Lot ‎12 ‎in order to remove the retaining wall and preserve the trees in its ‎

area, thereby flattening out one of the ‎"‎camel humps‎". ‎Mr‎. ‎Kahm stated they would ‎

be willing to do that‎. ‎He would like the opportunity to study the engineering ‎

implications of such a move to make sure that the desire objection would be ‎

accomplished‎. ‎They are amenable to compromise‎.‎

This item has been ‎POSTPONED‎ until the next regular meeting of October ‎21‎, ‎1997 ‎

to allow time to renotice adjacent property owners regarding the Tree Removal Permit ‎

for File No‎. ‎96‎-‎011‎.‎2 ‎(‎Quailcrest Subdivision‎).‎

Postponed

2000-1798

Request for Waiver from Buffer Requirements ‎- ‎File No‎. ‎96‎-‎011‎.‎2 ‎- ‎Quailcrest ‎

Subdivision‎

Postponed

2000-1799

Request for Tentative Approval of the Preliminary Plat ‎- ‎File No‎. ‎96‎-‎011‎.‎2 ‎- ‎

Quailcrest Subdivision‎

Postponed

ANY OTHER BUSINESS

There was no other business to come before the Planning Commission‎.‎

NEXT MEETING DATE

Chairperson Kaiser reminded Commissioners that the next Regular Meeting is ‎

scheduled for October ‎21‎, ‎1997‎.‎

ADJOURNMENT

Hearing no further business to come before the Planning Commission, Chairperson ‎

Kaiser adjourned the regular meeting at ‎9‎:‎50 ‎p‎.‎m‎. ‎Michigan time‎.‎